Physicists make up the majority. And then, from the position of Vladimir Mikhailovich Novikov, state that the level of device that we currently have is probably sufficient to ensure that Chernobyl does not happen again. Then the second option, a sarcophagus but with a concrete dome; why we rejected thatbecause the structure wouldnt withstand it. The party organisation was removed. This means that a rapid expansion of steam, constantly thermally heated, led to the damage that was witnessed. We were worried about the uncertainty of geometric shape of the remains of the reactor. It evaporates at just above 700 [sic] degrees Celsius. And here the fateful mistake was made, from which, specifically, Chernobyl began. We want to tell you the untold and hidden truth of the Chernobyl disaster. He exposes scary things towards the end.Our Goal:The original tapes are unfortunately not available, but there are original Russian transcripts. This centre was doing very extensive work on measuring radioactivity and the release of radioactivity, on wind transfer, on the dynamic conditions of various areas, and made a big contribution to the scientific research and practical plans of all this work done in Chernobyl. It was clear that during such migrations there was no command centre prepared from which it would be possible to organise the work in such difficult conditions. However, an event occurred, of such a scale, of such involvement of people with controversial interests, of errors and victories, failures and successes. Moreover, the measures that can be taken to prevent this from happening are known. I think it was out of these considerations; perhaps he had other considerations. The actions of the station management are very hard to explain. [38], His wife Margarita wrote a considerable number of articles and books to preserve his legacy. I was thinking about what should be the percentage of nuclear energy, and why it should be present in the Soviet energy sector. Legasov: Leaves an impression. Says, "Undress." Three or four or up to ten tons of TNT, this is the maximum that can be said. This was the first one. This project would have cost billions and such a canal would have passed through Belorussia. Then the second station, Beloyarsk nuclear station, where graphite was used as an inhibitor, but that it was already a fast-neutron reactor, and such research, and well, describe its working principle. It is about an article that was requested to be written by the magazine Scientific American and must have a summarizing philosophical character. How can I listen to Valery Legasov tapes? They started to say that they turned the cooling on, turned this or that on. Because his laboratory was a kind of cell that posed questions and formulated them physically; while the answers to these questions were given by specialists, not only from the various departments of the Institute but also from different institutes. But, money being limited, no investments were made for 10 years. Because in all other cases, he fought for the right things, even though it was difficult to fight. I remembered that experts from my own institute were already used to what was happening during the construction of the nuclear power plants. There werent any radio-controlled aircraft equipped with dosimetric devices. I want to stress that out once more: we removed the water just to avoid massive evaporation. What is the fault of Anatoly Pavlovich Alexandrov? This, roughly, is the structure according to which all the material should be prepared. Comrade Voronin was replaced by Yury Nikitich Maslyukov, and during his time a lot of work was done to build new premises, new villages for the evacuees. Valery And ammonium nitrate is an explosive in its pure form. And if we took the accumulated statistics, then the statistics on the operation of RBMK reactors were minimal compared to the VVER. So I started talking to him. He already knew about the disaster and that they had received a very serious alarm signal from the station the night before. But as you can understand from the talk, I am the director of my own department that supports the nuclear fuel cycle, that is, separating the isotopes, disposal of radioactivity My position is of an external observer, as it were, and also of a participant. This was the reasoning that led to the introduction of this group of metals into the destroyed reactor. Science, like art, does not tolerate intermediate links. This created an uncomfortable situation. The next thesis relates to the particular specification of the design of the device, the defects in this design and the sequential description of the causes that led to the accident itself. And then, after selecting appropriate devices, engineer them to comply with all the international safety standards. The correct decision was made during the time of comrade Vedernikov. All the time, new buildings, new stands and new people were required to do the work, because the number of devices was growing. They were responsible for providing all needed materials, living provisions; they played a vital role. A number of technological instruments had been replaced with either Swedish or their own, and ours had been taken out of operation. Since the emergency protection system consists of 211 rods that are lowered, they say that they have 211 [protection] systems, not two; because when they remove these 211 rods, each of which can absorb neutrons when lowered into the reactor, they say that there are 211 [safety systems]. Some in the Ministry of Medium Machine Building (Sredmash) opposed his appointment, fearing Legasov would be difficult to control, since the nuclear establishment wanted to divert blame to others if possible. I invited two or three experienced journalists to it. It was not taken into account that after the nuclear facilities move from limited industrial environment to wide usage in civil nuclear energy, the conditions will change drastically. Adamovich: And he himself? Then I was called to the Politburo meeting on the 5th of May. The same is with Velikhov, for example. Do you understand? He was interested in the current status of work, and the measures required from the government to resolve the situation faster. Although, I must say that for those devices that do not have containments, these measures will probably not be enough. I fought against this project from May; an absolutely useless project. Therefore, the fewer nuclear power plants and the more coal and oil ones we have, the higher the radioactive pollution will be under normal circumstances. And there was another episode. [1] After the meeting, Scherbina told him that he could work from Moscow but was quickly ordered back to Chernobyl. We were forced to develop non-traditional ways of solving this problem. "Legasov was the only competent person there. First of all, it must be noted that this is an experiment that should not have been performed at a nuclear power plant, because the value of turbine coastdown at idle is something that should be measured on a special stand built by the designer of the turbine. The philosophy itself contradicted what we had at hand. But since this philosophy of mandatory containment was not adopted by the leadership of nuclear energy of the time, the RBMK reactor did appear. those who have already been convicted at Chernobyl are criminals because they committed unthinkable actions and they were convicted absolutely legally. They accepted it very reluctantly, put it somewhere in their implementation plans for the 90s at the last moment, and began to correct the second mistake. It was the neighbouring 4th block which because of the Compton effectthe reradiation and reflection of a part of the gamma rays coming out through the roof of reactor number 4was the main source of the elevated radiation environment in the engine hall of the 3rd block. I, as a chemist, was worried about the huge potential for chemical reactions in these devices. After the section by Vladimir Fyodorovich, I see that Vladimir Konstantinovich must be involved in two ways. But the number of such attempts was small, and they were quickly suppressed. . I told her that I was leaving on a work trip and that the situation was unclear so I could not say how long I would be away, and then I left for Vnukovo. However, it would guarantee that no contaminated water got into the Kyiv Sea. As he told me later, he called Veretennikov in the Ministry of Energy about this, then Shasharin, got as far as Neporozhniy, and then reported it to comrade Maryin at the Central Party Committee. All these were some unusual questions that complemented nuclear energy. Yurchenko Yury Fedorovich was the director of this organization. They were very professional. With the approval of the director of the Institute, with his full support, the first deputy was working on organising system-wide research on the structure of nuclear energy, an activity that was of little interest to the Ministry and was happening solely because of the support from Anatoly Petrovich Aleksandrov. How? It would enclose the object in what is called a containment (maybe an underground option or other possible engineering options), but the most important for reliability is to have a system that does not rely on a geographical site. [1] He also considered the possibility of ground water contamination to be extremely low, but precautionary work was initiated to cool the reactor using an underground system. Since Anatoly Pavlovich was himself a reactor man, creator or participant in the creation of many reactors, he needed me not as a reactor scientist, but as someone who, from the outside, could give unusual advice, find unconventional solutions. The same thing was done to all surfaces that could produce dust. I want to emphasize that I was possibly the only one, among the people I spoke to, who acutely felt this concern. First of all, it leaked through the side gaps and practically passed by the reactor area that had the fuel; and secondly, its quantity was calculated entirely incorrectly. Full approval of our actions; very calmly. And this could have happened a few years ago. Starting on the second day we started receiving suggestions from abroad about various chemical mixtures that could be used on the burning graphite. The first part should be about what the Soviet Union has done in the international arenawhat material it has presented, whom it invited, who hosted, whose help it accepted and whose help it refused. Because there are various ways that could lead to the addition of positive reactivity in such an uncontrollable reactor. Broadly, the international tasks section should be split into two parts. They did not know what to do; and if they received direct instructions, they did not demonstrate any influence, management skills or ability to remedy the situation. Adamovich: [faintly audible] And he remained there. But I saw for myself how they would grab the most famous people there, and interview them about some specific issue. This station had a proper training simulator where everyone had to undergo regular training, and the various situations that could arise at a reactor were simulated. Slowly, once the most powerful in the country, they began to lose the standard of modern equipment. The severity of the radiation conditions meant that the reactor could only be approached from the air, and even then nothing could get closer than about 200 metres above the reactor. The staff began to age. But, at night, everyone gathered at the Ministry of Energy. Scientist who exposed true extent of Chernobyl disaster killed himself a day after second anniversary (As the Deputy Director of Kurchatov Institute of Atomic Energy in Moscow, Valery Legasov received a distress call on April 26, 1986, asking him to head to Chernobyl. And for the shift workers that had to work in the 1st and 2nd blocks, a very nice village was constructed with all the needed amenities: with houses, with shops, with cultural facilities. s01e05 - Vichnaya Pamyat - Chernobyl Transcripts . devices. In the end it appeared that the GeoChem group was wrong, because their samples were taken in such a condition that they had included plutonium used in weapons coming from nuclear explosion period. But the refueling itself took only 18-19 days, while for us it takes around a month and a half, and upto two months at times. After Anatoly Petrovich Alexandrov was elected president of the USSR Academy of Sciences, he made me the first deputy director of the institute, entrusted me with several responsibilities regarding the management of the institute, but did not change my responsibilities in the scientific sphere. Adamovich: [Unclear] you talked about nitrogen. Dust transfer because of a dry summer was also enlarging the contaminated areas. But, naturally, I couldnt considerably change this situation. If the temperature is high, it melts and absorbs heat. And they did it. On these matters, I would say, Viktor Aleksandrovich Sidorenko was the leader of the people who were concerned. Earlier I described the work before and after the containment of the accident, but an even more essential element of the decision of our Government Commission on 26 April was the question of the population. It was considered bad because of economic reasons. The Finns, according to international requirements, said, Give us containment; we wont take it without containment. And then came our first station with containment. What did they need to do in such a situation? Such and such things have been implemented. [17] In 1981, he became a full member of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, in the Department of Physical Chemistry and Technology of Inorganic Materials. [28], Some in the scientific community were still displeased by Legasov and his legacy. Legasov: Yes. Moreover, the designer to this day If the designers of the RBMK reactor or my colleagues from my own institute heard me now, they would tear me to pieces because they think that I dont understand the philosophy of safety. It is told mainly through the stories of two real-life people Valery Legasov a chemist tasked to lead a. Firstly, thanks to our reports and I was a reporter, they understood the situation, understood that this was not an average accident but a high-scale disaster that will have long-term consequences, and that enormous amounts of work would be required to continue the localisation of reactor number 4 as well as to decontaminate the area and to build a shelter for the wrecked 4th block. A temperature at which a vapour-zirconium reaction could begin, accompanied by the generation of hydrogen was, in principle, unacceptable, be it routine work or technical conditions. And a large army [of journalists] appeared there. This question was discussed at the Government Commission and was escalated to higher levels, and ultimately it was decided to defer the issue and that in the next year, 1987, and possibly in 1988, no construction work will be done on 5th and 6th blocks. Two explosions happened and caused the destruction of the reactor building. This was especially the case for the radioactive outbursts in reactor number 4 - different services had been providing different information in the first stages of localization. And now it appears that it is impossible to make the rods move that fast after all. Entirely another case was when Eugeny Pavlovich proposed to construct another such plate under the wreck that was outside of reactor number 4. [5] During 1953, he proposed reforms to the Komsomol committee to address what he perceived as indifference and passivity of its members. It was necessary to tackle the issue of checking the equipment in the 1st and 2nd blocks, of checking the remaining structure and equipment in the 3rd block. It can be taken from my older works that we mostly use heat, radiation, today; but actually, it is possible to produce synthetic materials, to alloy, modify, remove impurities in nuclear sources more simply and more economically than is done today in, for example, chemical or metallurgical industry. Before him, Viktor Alekseyevich Sidorenko worked as the director of the department of nuclear reactors. And, a little later, Egorov from the Adamov Institute but he arrived a day or two later. "[28] In spring 1987, a vote was held by the Kurchatov Institute to their Scientific-Technical Council with Legasov standing at the insistence of his mentor Anatoly Alexandrov. But from the contents of the telegrams, it was apparent that all this was, you know, people dreaming up things, same as we were doing here. [29], As a national hero at the time of his death,[27] Legasov's suicide caused shockwaves in the Soviet nuclear industry. Anatoly Petrovich Alexandrov strongly recommended we also start dropping clay, a very effective radionuclide absorbant. It has all the designers; everyone remained with them, whereas the Ministry of Energy is purely an operational institution. This is how I mainly knew the KGB. He listened very carefully (I thought that it would be hard for the country to supply so much material in a matter of days) and as I got to know later, ordered 6000 tons of lead, because he thought that we could have made a mistake in our calculations and it would be better to have surplus lead instead of not having enough. But all this was done remarkably clearly and quickly. This is how his own subordinates, brought up for years with such an ideology in that Ministry, could kick out their own superior. Rather curtly, he stated that they had somewhat messed something up, and an accident of sorts had occurred there, but this would not stop the overall development of the atomic energy program. Chernobyl began, in my opinion, conditionally of course, in 1961; that is, in the very year when Gagarin flew into space or at the time of the last highest achievement of Soviet science and technology. Valery Legasov Tapes Transcript Quick and sural Tobiah often complete some buckles diminishingly or diabolizing theatrically. Academician Kikoev tried to convince me to stay in postgraduate studies because he liked my graduate thesis. Any approach to nuclear safety of a technologically complex and potentially dangerous device must have three elements. And the concentration of radioactive elements in the silt under the cooling pond was up to 10-5 curie, while the concentration of radioactivity in the water was no more than 10-8 or 10-9 curie per litre. In particular, we were worried about two things: can that movement cause critical mass buildup in some region which would produce short-living isotopes. This is what makes the Minsk station and the Finnish station distinct. Around that much. The first two such consecutive works by experts were interesting. So the necessary measures were taken to remove that water from there. In January 1986, Legasov co-authored a propaganda piece in Soviet Life magazine claiming there had been no nuclear accidents that had seriously threatened personnel or risked contamination, which ignored multiple serious nuclear incidents in the Soviet Union. As soon as we started selling stations to the Finns. Immediately after me, Aleksandr Grigorjevich Meshkov, First Deputy Minister of Medium Machine Building, entered the room, quickly stated that a Government commission had been formed to investigate the Chernobyl accident, and that I had been assigned to that commission. 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